Lions and Tigers and Preachers OH MY!

Just got back from a conference called Unleash at Newspring Church in South Carolina! It was incredible… I was riding high until I got to my hotel room and heard another preacher, from youtube, attack the pastor of Newspring. All that I ask is that you guys watch this video and ask yourselves, “Is this the love that Christ called us to? Is this the gospel being preached boldly to the nations? Is this in any way positive or constructive?” For more on this topic, this pastor’s rant, Newspring church, and the sons of Sceva that preach all over the US, stay tuned for a chapter in my book called “Lions and Tigers and Preachers OH MY!: Am I Really Going to Hell If…”

 Enjoy!

 P.S. Try watching this with popcorn, I highly encourage it!

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~ by Tim Kurek on March 15, 2008.

13 Responses to “Lions and Tigers and Preachers OH MY!”

  1. Tim
    I agree. This pastor that is putting down a godly church like NewSpring is not a pastor that wants to see people come to Christ,He is a pastor that is jealous and I couldn’t finish watching the entire video cause it made me angry and all I can do is pray for that pastor and hopefully God will show him the true meaning of God’s Love.

  2. One thing that’s off limits: jealousy and division within the body of Christ. Without adding to the problem, I want to be a discerning “fruit-inspector” and sadly this pastor has missed what his calling is all about. He rightly esteems the importance of graduating to feast upon spiritual steak, and cultivating a reverent attitude toward God, however his sermon was largely lacking in both. It was a personally-charged soap-box, not an edifying message drawn God’s word. Even if Perry’s version is the NIV, the Word is apparently read at Newspring, and not merely used like a club against the podium. The benchmark of a growing Christian is not that he’s never played guitar hero in church or that he avoids the NIV like the plague. According to Scripture, it’s that he is being transformed closer to the image of Christ by the work of the Holy Spirit in his life. Producing spiritual fruit. Looking after orphans and widows. Keeping oneself free of sinful corruption, loving God with heart soul mind and strength. Fearing the Lord and keeping His ways. Dying out to the sinful nature and receiving a new heart, becoming a new creation in Christ. These must remain central, for Scripture is authoritative and saturated with these themes. Otherwise Christ is neglected to the myriad of individual power trips and pastoral pet issues. Additionally, the pastor makes the mistaken (but popular) error of defining liberal and conservative in terms of church service-procedure. This has never been what conservative or liberal labels actually mean, and it’s time to abandon a terminology which does not apply. The terms most appropriately apply to economics and politics, not church protocols. Since the pastor equates rocking church services with a deplorable rise in liberalism, I would like to invite him to visit a few select churches in the Northwest where I live, which are full of Biblical, moral and theological compromise. This is liberalism as I think he means to use the word. A lot boils down to semantics, but words and ideas have meaning and consequences. Conservatives are not the necessarily the opponents of change like the pastor assumes. If this were the case, then a conservative in the former Soviet Union would be a flag-waving Marxist, while a liberal would be lobbying for the demise of communism and the emergence of individual rights and free-market economics. This would clearly be a reversal. In church procedure however, the issue is not conversative vs. liberal. It’s God-honoring vs. God-dishonoring. True vs. false. Biblical vs. unbiblical. Tim: Hey, this is Derek. I remember you from Bible 110 class and want to encourage you that fortunately Christianity is not this abusive pastor’s invented puppet – he doesn’t have the credentials to define and reshape the one and only Christ who came to earth to rescue man and bring us back to Him in a real epic move of hope and love. Want to know Christianity? Look at Christ.

  3. Derek! Good to hear from you! How could I forget my favorite all time GA?!?! Don’t worry about me with Christianity, its just this guy that I have to look at and shake my head at… Ill hit you up on facebook soon!

    tim

  4. I SOOOOOOOO want to go off on this guy! lol! If you don’t mind, I’m gonna rant for a sec.

    1- Satanic goat head symbol? Dude needs to chill out! It means rock on! lol!

    2- He goes on and on about how they are playing rock music. Who cares! If you can take songs that are fun and relate them to God and it brings peoples attention to God (which is the point) then whats the problem?

    3- He’s bashing their whole style of worship talking about how its wrong. Well it’s also wrong to be judgemental. He says he loves the people and loves the lost… well he must not love them too much. You would think that if you have a chance to show the lost Christ, that you would use any means available. If the only way “John Smith” over here is going to realize God’s presence is by hearing ‘Living on a Prayer’ OKAY! I’m cool with that. I’ll play it 1000 times for him.

    4- He blames the condition of the country on these new age churches… no, the problem is most people see Christians as hypocrits and he is a prime example of why.

    5- Keeps ranting on about show some respect for our Savior. Don’t call him JC. Well, he needs to show some respect and stop slamming his Bible down on the podeum. It’s not a gavel.

    6- He keeps talkin bad about the NIV. Is the dude Mormon or something?The only acceptable text is NOT the KJV. Would you rather people read the NIV, understand whats being said, and actually study their Bibles… or read the KJV with a ton of thous, shalls, hithertos, etc and not understand a word? then just sit there smiling and nodding b/c they don’t know what in the world is being said.

    7- He talks about how you need the meat of a sermon to be fed spiritually. He didn’t say one single thing about their sermon. All he did was bash their worship music. I bet if he would have actually heard the sermon instead of judging then he might be pleasently surprised. And for that matter, where does he come off judging these people when he wasn’t even there! He didn’t even experience it… he heard it from a friend.

    Sorry, but people like this irritate the crap out of me. But yeah, there’s my venting for the day. haha! Hope you’re having a good day 😀

  5. I think he’s young. Also look at the building they’re in. Kinda small, I’m predicting no growth. Maybe a small town or something.

    I do give him credit for most of what he says, because he is right. And he has every right to “judge” another group of believers. Paul said to not judge those outside of the faith (that’s God’s job), but if they claim to be Christian, we can hold them to the word of God.

    While I think he could have been more mature in how he described the church, I think his overall premise was that the “liberal” churches focus more on the experience rather than the Word of God.

    My basic thought after watching this was, well, dude, be a little more respectful, but keep on preaching.

    –Ricky
    http://www.twochannelstation.wordpress.com

  6. Whoah there cowboy,

    “I do give him credit for most of what he says, because he is right. And he has every right to “judge” another group of believers. Paul said to not judge those outside of the faith (that’s God’s job), but if they claim to be Christian, we can hold them to the word of God. While I think he could have been more mature in how he described the church, I think his overall premise was that the “liberal” churches focus more on the experience rather than the Word of God.”

    The ONLY time we can judge another believer is if they blatantly defile the core doctrines of the word. The only differences between Pastor Anderson and Newspring’s church… besides grace lol… is that they use different methods. Methodology differences is no excuse to do what he did. I have no problem with him being a fundamentalist, I was once… “It lasted about a summer” (Donald Miller) haha… My only real issue is that he thinks his way is the only way.

    So Ricky, please rethink what you just said. The accuser of the brethren shall be cursed, according to the word. If you defend an accuser, does that make you as guilty as the accuser?

    tim

  7. I don’t think so. I’ve never been to either of these churches, so I don’t know for sure. But can the method be wrong? Sure there are numerous ways to run “church” and to spread the Gospel, but where is the line drawn between honestly seeking new ways to spread the Gospel, or providing entertainment to draw sinners in?

    The fundamentalist preacher made good points about the Word of God, and I give him credit for that. However when he talks about the other church, I think he really needed to be more respectful.

    I’m not accusing anyone. I’m simply saying don’t discredit the fundamentalist preacher simply because he’s fundamentalist.

  8. No one is actually discrediting the fundy preacher, but himself. And what I am saying is to judge whether or not a church is “entertainment/show” driven is to judge the hearts of everyone in leadership at the church… You CAN’T do that unless they BLATANTLY contradict scriptural cannon. I don’t care if Pastor Steve is a fundamentalist or an emergent, he spoke ignorantly and his message was destroyed by an attitude of pride within his heart that came out ad nauseum in that video.

  9. Tim- Wow, that dude is “out there”. I have seen some other comments of his so I’m not too surprised. I’m glad you enjoyed the conference bro. Can’t wait to hear more about what God impressed on your heart.

  10. I most certainly can critique another church. Who says I can’t? Now, I will admit that I have never attended Newspring so I cannot talk about them specifically.

    Here’s a specific thing about what I’m talking about. The fundy (I like that term haha) talked about how Guitar Hero was played in church supposedly. Here’s what I would say if I was that preacher:

    “Is Guitar Hero necessary? Yes it fits the theme of the series the church is going through, but do we need to have guitar hero? When we’re debating about how to make church more creative and glorifying to God, ask this question. Would you feel comfortable having Jesus sit next to you and watch?”

    This question has to be asked. I know it sounds Sunday-school-ish but what would Jesus do? Would he need Guitar Hero to make a point about “rocking” for Jesus?

    At what point do we NEED to look like the culture around us in order to witness to them?

  11. It has nothing to do with “looking like them”, it has everything to do with reaching people in a relational way. If your community were for instance, had a population of 90% hippies that were into growing their own fruit, veggies, etc… Would it be wrong to build a greenhouse and teach classes on how to garden efficiently? The gospel is supposed to reach the whole man, the whole culture, and not just sharpen individuals in a religious way. Ask Rick McKinley from Imago Dei in Portland, who is doing the garden ministry at his church and is reaching people in the community he would never have otherwise.

    Also, who is to say that the fundy way of doing church is the right way, or only way? What if God wanted guitar hero to be used as an object lesson in church??? Can you honestly say it is anything other than just a creative way to get people focused on the screens and seated, so that when the real service starts they are already focused on the stage??

    The fundy preacher understands that God hates sin, but not why he hates sin… He understands how to judge, but not how to love. And he fits the bill perfectly, of the people falling into “vain discussions” found in I Timothy 1. That can’t be debated.

    Evaluating a church to see if it would be the best church for you is not wrong, but preaching against a church because they played “guitar hero” is nothing short of a waste of a pulpit.

  12. “…just a creative way to get people focused on the screens and seated, that when the real service starts they are already focused on the stage.”

    When people come to church they need to be focused on the stage? It sounds like church is some kind of entertainment, a concert or spectacle. When people come to church they shouldn’t be focusing on the service, the worship, the screens, the stage, the pulpit, the decorations, they should be focused on God.

    God is the reason we come to church. Now all the thing I just mentioned aren’t wrong, but they are unnecessary distractions.

    Actually the 1 Timothy 1 passage was talking about discussions over theology. Like the predestination argument for example. Not what goes on during “church services.”

  13. Not true, the conversations spoken of involved all types of arguments over things like theology, methodology, etc… And bro, get real… Yes the focus should be on God, but it GREATLY aids in organization if the leadership can get everyone seated and at attention for when they begin. Please stop arguing semantics.

    So now… For the sake of avoiding another vain argument, I am going to draw this discussion to a close. Thanks for commenting.

    tim

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